I asked for advice on what files to produce for this holster and received this very helpful suggestion:
Cosplayers, as far as I know, are a mixed breed. Some strive for accuracy and have no problem printing something out and bolting or screwing it together, while there are others are fine with cardboard and foam (accuracy be damned) so whatever you have now is perfect. You can add slots in the back plate to thread a belt through, and just add bolts to the top plate.
If I were to design something similar, I would design it with bolts, nuts, screws, and if you're two together, perhaps a hinge. I'd put holes through the top plate so that you can use small screws to attach the front plate. The holes would go up to the bolt heads to allow the extra material to provide more for the screws to bite into. I would use a #8 countersunk screw (available at Home Depots at low cost in blister packaging) along with a 4mm diameter hole.
Hinges, depending on how you print them out, can be quite strong, even if printing in PLA. It just depends on the orientation that you print them at. If you stand them on edge, you will get the most strength, but will have to sacrifice more support material to print them. If you print the hinges flat, the weak point is the bonding between layers.
I hope I'm understanding your needs. I'm someone who attempts to over-engineer things so that they are stronger than they are required to be.
TazMan2000
and this suggestion from Psab Keel
Perhaps a Covertech clip like they used for the Prequel Lightsabers? This would also allow the sheath to swivel and you could position the sword prop at different angles depending on your stance?
OK, final focus is now on the Baliset. I have my original assumption of sizes confirmed by further internet searches. I have my length set at 28 inches, width at head end 3 1/32, tail end 4 5/16. I could only guess at thickness as a guitar neck can either be strong by its own shape (being much thicker) or be thin and have an attached backer bar for tensioning.
I am now wondering about the authenticity of some of these images. My original grab was what was shown on the interview with Brolin.
But then there is this one from reddit which IS NOT THE SAME BALISET or, at least, has some parts missing (bridge and side pins for the strap at the tail). I believe the lower art in this advert is a 3d rendering and it NOT the real world item:
And then there is the screen cap of Brolin in the actual scene and it again does not look like the one shown in the interview photo nor the one from Reddit (and he isn't wearing the same shirt, so it isn't from the actual scene). Pay close attention to how the in-movie one has normal seated frets but the one from the interview has thick wires laid on as frets. They do not fit into a slot across the top but instead lay across the face. The in-movie ones look like normal guitar frets that are flat bar that had been pushed down into grooved cuts (standard guitar fretwork).
These could all be the same baliset but at different stages of its creation. The biggest differences are the location of the bridge bar, the appearance or absence of the pins for tying on the strap and the size and shape of the tensioners at the tail.
This difference at the tail is pretty significant. The Reddit promotional photo shows a beautifully symmetrical V of tensioners that are identical in shape and positioning with only the black ends getting longer and shorter to form the V.
The photo from the interview shows a mishmash of lengths that honestly don't make any sense as to why.
I have yet to find a photo taken by Brolin himself. There MUST be one as he was leaking tons of photos prior to the release of the movie.
I would be willing to think the in-scene and the interview photo could be the same one if I accept that some of the frets lay on top and some are seated into the wood. Looking at the close up, in-scene, the height of the frets is all over the place.
I finally found the tensioners. They are called Single String Headless Guitar Bridges. Why? I have no freaking clue. The internet utterly failed me when I looked for them and all parts catalogs will not list them at all when you are looking for "tuners", "tensioners" or otherwise. You MUST say "Headless Guitar Bridge" and pop, you get a tubular shaped tensioner. ERRRRRR DUH, maybe we made that a bit hard for the layman.
The trick is buying the one closest to the same shape as those on the movie. I will likely make them myself to get them to look the same.
I called my close friend, a wood working guru and obtained my base. A cut of 1/2 inch Poplar plate. By the time I got there to pick it up, he had already cut it to size.
I then ran out to my uncle's and picked up the belt/disk combo sander. I will shape it first and then cut the fret grooves on a dremel table. One notch per side where the fret wire dips over the edge.
The headless guitar parts are already available online so I may take a trip to my local music store and see if I can score a handful of parts and some used strings.
Slim the body down to just the neck and all the parts are correct. I can see that 9 nut set at the top will need to be what I have just on the back of the neck for mine. Our version has the wires going into slots in the wood and looping down onto the back. I will hide this set of wire keeper nuts just on the backside at the neck's top end.
I used my measurement app to get the fret positions from the headless neck down in millimeters:
This does not include the first two notches that do not have a fret 29.3 35.9 65.9 98.9 131.9 163.3 192.7 218.6 242 264.1 285.4 305.4 324.4 340.9 357.5 373.1 388.4 407.3 421.1 433.7 447.1 458.4 469.7 479.8 491.1 501.2 509.9 517.9 526.8 535.6 542 561 side posts (leather strap mount points) 548.8 curve in the face of the wood (drop down about 3/32 inch) 579.6 center of bar (I believe this is the bridge or possibly the pickup)
I drew a center line, found 90 degrees at the first measurement and then marked all positions with a pencil. I am painting the entire piece so my marks do not need to be removed.
I then picked the same centerline to carve the head where the string slots are at the very top. Then I looked at the movie version for the position of the first and last string and marked those. Now I had 3 marks. Between each I marked halfway and then halfway between all existing marks to end up with 9 distributed slot marks:
Then dremel for the fret notches. I am using armature wire for my frets so just needed a notch in the side worthy of the wire bent over each edge and string notches at the top.
I then sanded the drop at the base to thin the lower section as it is onscreen:
Then a test with the wire:
I will take the wires off and do my first coat of stain. Once dark enough, I will add all frets, and lower parts. I still need to get to the music store for the strings.
I emailed the company that made the 9 string guitar (posted above) and asked if they had a hand in the build of the baliset.
I then went into town to our local music store, Absolute Sound, and talked with two wonderful folks, David and Ted. I showed them my project and (I swear I already posted this) worked out some needed parts. The consensus was, headless guitar fine tuners are available in very very short versions but would only be needed for a working guitar. My base is poplar and cannot handle stress of any kind so that would only be needed for a future build of a working unit (buying a much stronger wood).
I then got an email back from Aristedes about their 9 string and they said they did not help with the movie baliset but gave me the numbers for the string set they used on their own 9 string (which looks just like the string set from the movie):
"For our 9 string guitar, we use a Stringjoy set ranging from .009 to .090."
So, kudos to aristedes and Jeroen for being awesome.
I went back to my local music shop and picked up my strings and 3 strap buttons. David and Ted are both rudiculously cool and helpful.
I then went to the local electrical supply (one of 5) and purchased the locking nut for the back of the neck end (where the strings are locked down). Mainly because I am too impatient to wait for the correct 9 string guitar locking nut.
Then went next door to pick up the brass washers that will finish the look for my strap buttons (the little part the strap ties to on the frame).
Remaining purchases will be the little tacks needed to tie the strings under my faux tensioners. Then build out the faux tensioners to look like the prop. And, I still don't have the uv cure resin for seating the frets.
Side strap buttons attached. I was going to add a brass washer but it made it too big. After this photo, I painted a gold ring on the button to match the onscreen.
I fussed with the idea of having real tensioners but the movie version is either extreme customs or are not tensioners. In order for me to match the original I placed pegs instead. I clipped these down to about 1/4 inch and will cover them with the correct shapes to match.
I then added the wire grounding bar instead of the true guitar wire nut bar. It was what is available locally.
I will trim this down to hide behind the baliset.
Also in that shot is the final strap button.
I still have all of this yet to do but wired it up anyway. In this picture I have marked all areas still needing added decoration. The two blue arrows are where I am trimming back the wire rack.
“Missing” frets is not necessarily an error. I have seen legit stringed instruments where some frets were deleted as the scale/tuning chosen didn’t want it need those nodes.
It may have been a random prop maker decision to make it spacey and less familiar too.
If you provide overall dimensions and a scale length (distance from nut to bridge) I should be able to suggest neck thickness (still think you want truss rods) and come up with a fret distance map. But I can tell you you need to be able to measure and cut to three decimal places (.001” precision). Then how many frets/octaves. It seemed like two octaves (24 frets) was right.
Oh yeah- it looked like it was using or made to appear to use a zero fret. We did one guitar this way.
String height at the nut is usually set by the nut itself, along with the spacing. A zero fret sets the string height and provides the open node. Arguments for open strings sounding more like fretted ones etc. I have no opinion either way as a drummer but I noticed that in at least one photo.
In the promotional picture it shows a very smooth bridge bar super close to the tensioners/tuners. I believe that is the same bar that is now close to the lowest fret, right under the two strap buttons (side buttons). I believe that if any true pickup exists, it is the funky little stack of blue humps right next to this bridge bar.
I am only guessing here but I think that what has been done is a headless guitar bridge/tuners have had the bridge part cut off. This left only the tensioner/tuner mechanism portion which match exactly to that portion of the funplay bridge singles. If they were using this smooth bar as a true bridge, they wouldn't need the obvious single bridges on the tuners and could then make it look like nothing commercially purchased was used.
Slowly wrapping my head around how much of the gray 3d render is real. The tuning and pickup section, at the tail, really is made of tubes, from the bottom fret all the way to the end. The curvature between the strap buttons is just one end of the tubes. They go all the way down and become the tuners. Nearly 6 inches long. There really isn't a flat section here, it is a cutaway in the center of the tubes.
The best I can manage is to draw the vertical lines between the frets and the tuners on my wooden base.
These piezo look totally plausable for being that gray bar. The pickup itself is no larger around than a meat thermometer. Creating the gray cover for it would be easy.
I worked out distances on my measurement app and cut my strap patterns. here are the strap sizes. I will also use cord to tie the leather to the bottom two strap buttons.
Comments
Cosplayers, as far as I know, are a mixed breed. Some strive for accuracy and have no problem printing something out and bolting or screwing it together, while there are others are fine with cardboard and foam (accuracy be damned) so whatever you have now is perfect. You can add slots in the back plate to thread a belt through, and just add bolts to the top plate.
If I were to design something similar, I would design it with bolts, nuts, screws, and if you're two together, perhaps a hinge. I'd put holes through the top plate so that you can use small screws to attach the front plate. The holes would go up to the bolt heads to allow the extra material to provide more for the screws to bite into. I would use a #8 countersunk screw (available at Home Depots at low cost in blister packaging) along with a 4mm diameter hole.
Hinges, depending on how you print them out, can be quite strong, even if printing in PLA. It just depends on the orientation that you print them at. If you stand them on edge, you will get the most strength, but will have to sacrifice more support material to print them. If you print the hinges flat, the weak point is the bonding between layers.
I hope I'm understanding your needs. I'm someone who attempts to over-engineer things so that they are stronger than they are required to be.
TazMan2000
and this suggestion from Psab Keel
Perhaps a Covertech clip like they used for the Prequel Lightsabers? This would also allow the sheath to swivel and you could position the sword prop at different angles depending on your stance?
I had to adjust the thickness to not bind too hard on the blades.
This is how they naturally hang with the blades holstered:
and this is equilibrium without:
I am pretty ridiculously happy with that.
I believe the overall size is still up for debate so scale to your liking, especially if you have some replica swords to work with.
Stl attached below
Please see notes in the previous two thread pages for hanging and attachment.
https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/gurney-halleck-impersonation-cosplay-costume-josh-brolin-impersonation-cosplay-costume-dune-ii-fremen-heavy-armor.367589/post-5746923
I am now wondering about the authenticity of some of these images. My original grab was what was shown on the interview with Brolin.
But then there is this one from reddit which IS NOT THE SAME BALISET or, at least, has some parts missing (bridge and side pins for the strap at the tail). I believe the lower art in this advert is a 3d rendering and it NOT the real world item:
And then there is the screen cap of Brolin in the actual scene and it again does not look like the one shown in the interview photo nor the one from Reddit (and he isn't wearing the same shirt, so it isn't from the actual scene). Pay close attention to how the in-movie one has normal seated frets but the one from the interview has thick wires laid on as frets. They do not fit into a slot across the top but instead lay across the face. The in-movie ones look like normal guitar frets that are flat bar that had been pushed down into grooved cuts (standard guitar fretwork).
These could all be the same baliset but at different stages of its creation. The biggest differences are the location of the bridge bar, the appearance or absence of the pins for tying on the strap and the size and shape of the tensioners at the tail.
This difference at the tail is pretty significant. The Reddit promotional photo shows a beautifully symmetrical V of tensioners that are identical in shape and positioning with only the black ends getting longer and shorter to form the V.
The photo from the interview shows a mishmash of lengths that honestly don't make any sense as to why.
I have yet to find a photo taken by Brolin himself. There MUST be one as he was leaking tons of photos prior to the release of the movie.
I would be willing to think the in-scene and the interview photo could be the same one if I accept that some of the frets lay on top and some are seated into the wood. Looking at the close up, in-scene, the height of the frets is all over the place.
The trick is buying the one closest to the same shape as those on the movie. I will likely make them myself to get them to look the same.
I then ran out to my uncle's and picked up the belt/disk combo sander. I will shape it first and then cut the fret grooves on a dremel table. One notch per side where the fret wire dips over the edge.
The headless guitar parts are already available online so I may take a trip to my local music store and see if I can score a handful of parts and some used strings.
Slim the body down to just the neck and all the parts are correct. I can see that 9 nut set at the top will need to be what I have just on the back of the neck for mine. Our version has the wires going into slots in the wood and looping down onto the back. I will hide this set of wire keeper nuts just on the backside at the neck's top end.
This does not include the first two notches that do not have a fret
29.3
35.9
65.9
98.9
131.9
163.3
192.7
218.6
242
264.1
285.4
305.4
324.4
340.9
357.5
373.1
388.4
407.3
421.1
433.7
447.1
458.4
469.7
479.8
491.1
501.2
509.9
517.9
526.8
535.6
542
561 side posts (leather strap mount points)
548.8 curve in the face of the wood (drop down about 3/32 inch)
579.6 center of bar (I believe this is the bridge or possibly the pickup)
I then picked the same centerline to carve the head where the string slots are at the very top. Then I looked at the movie version for the position of the first and last string and marked those. Now I had 3 marks. Between each I marked halfway and then halfway between all existing marks to end up with 9 distributed slot marks:
Then a test with the wire:
I will take the wires off and do my first coat of stain. Once dark enough, I will add all frets, and lower parts. I still need to get to the music store for the strings.
Krylon satin espresso brown.
The can was nearly empty so I thought I would just do some light dusting and inconsistent on purpose and then go over it with another brown.
IT IS DONE.....
My light coat turned into the PERFECT weathered brown stain.
I love it.
After adding the hardware, I will add the fingertip wear locations.
I then went into town to our local music store, Absolute Sound, and talked with two wonderful folks, David and Ted. I showed them my project and (I swear I already posted this) worked out some needed parts. The consensus was, headless guitar fine tuners are available in very very short versions but would only be needed for a working guitar. My base is poplar and cannot handle stress of any kind so that would only be needed for a future build of a working unit (buying a much stronger wood).
I then got an email back from Aristedes about their 9 string and they said they did not help with the movie baliset but gave me the numbers for the string set they used on their own 9 string (which looks just like the string set from the movie):
"For our 9 string guitar, we use a Stringjoy set ranging from .009 to .090."
So, kudos to aristedes and Jeroen for being awesome.
I went back to my local music shop and picked up my strings and 3 strap buttons. David and Ted are both rudiculously cool and helpful.
I then went to the local electrical supply (one of 5) and purchased the locking nut for the back of the neck end (where the strings are locked down). Mainly because I am too impatient to wait for the correct 9 string guitar locking nut.
Then went next door to pick up the brass washers that will finish the look for my strap buttons (the little part the strap ties to on the frame).
Remaining purchases will be the little tacks needed to tie the strings under my faux tensioners. Then build out the faux tensioners to look like the prop. And, I still don't have the uv cure resin for seating the frets.
Side strap buttons attached. I was going to add a brass washer but it made it too big. After this photo, I painted a gold ring on the button to match the onscreen.
I fussed with the idea of having real tensioners but the movie version is either extreme customs or are not tensioners. In order for me to match the original I placed pegs instead. I clipped these down to about 1/4 inch and will cover them with the correct shapes to match.
I then added the wire grounding bar instead of the true guitar wire nut bar. It was what is available locally.
I will trim this down to hide behind the baliset.
Also in that shot is the final strap button.
I still have all of this yet to do but wired it up anyway. In this picture I have marked all areas still needing added decoration. The two blue arrows are where I am trimming back the wire rack.
It may have been a random prop maker decision to make it spacey and less familiar too.
If you provide overall dimensions and a scale length (distance from nut to bridge) I should be able to suggest neck thickness (still think you want truss rods) and come up with a fret distance map. But I can tell you you need to be able to measure and cut to three decimal places (.001” precision). Then how many frets/octaves. It seemed like two octaves (24 frets) was right.
String height at the nut is usually set by the nut itself, along with the spacing. A zero fret sets the string height and provides the open node. Arguments for open strings sounding more like fretted ones etc. I have no opinion either way as a drummer but I noticed that in at least one photo.
Zero fret in front of the nut slot.
I am only guessing here but I think that what has been done is a headless guitar bridge/tuners have had the bridge part cut off. This left only the tensioner/tuner mechanism portion which match exactly to that portion of the funplay bridge singles. If they were using this smooth bar as a true bridge, they wouldn't need the obvious single bridges on the tuners and could then make it look like nothing commercially purchased was used.
The best I can manage is to draw the vertical lines between the frets and the tuners on my wooden base.
https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/gurney-halleck-impersonation-cosplay-costume-josh-brolin-impersonation-cosplay-costume-dune-ii-fremen-heavy-armor.367589/post-5749444
For pickups you could always use a piezo pickup…. Put it almost anywhere, but works well on the bridge.
My Tack Store find today.
I then punched the upper button hole:
Paint time!!
The white and gray sublayers of paint went on first. Then I printed out the pattern, taped it to the strap and burned it in with the soldering tool.
Then a thick layer of white in the center and then shades of blue and green until I was happy with the color.
Any variations are going to be pitched to lighting. Calling this complete.
Only small items to reach the full cosplay finish now. Should be by this weekend.